New G-70 owner here....need some help please.

[KC]

Hello to all and thanks in advance:
About three years ago I inherited a Roland G1000 from my nephew.  It was my first endeavour into the arranger type keyboard needless to say the OS was a real steep learning curve.  Now I own a G-70 as of a month ago and I must say What A Keyboard!! (but I guess you all know this) Anyhow my question is this:
On the G1000 there was a setting under panpot that if you put a value <>127 a RND would appear and it would make the instrument selected play through either speaker at random. This was a great effect for me and I was wondering if there was a way to emulate this effect on the G-70?

Thanks again
K

[Diki]

In a word... No.

Sorry, this feature (like so much else from the G1000) got tossed.

Along with the Chord Sequencer, and elaborate aftertouch control routings, sensible MIDI implementation, and dedicated octave buttons and break/mute buttons, etc., etc..

Feel free to ask Roland (on our New Features forum) for the return of your favorites...

[admin]

Hi Kanell, Congratulations on your G-70 and welcome to the forum. We are here to help you

I will just add that I miss this feature also! Please create a message in the "new functionality" board. That will help Roland decide features for any future models.

Despite the fact that a few great features from the G-1000 lacks in the G-70, I am sure that you will be MUCH happier with the G-70!

[Duo-Keyboarder]

I have this feature in my "Mini Soundcanvas" Boss Dr. Synth, but I never used it.
So it's reasonable to me, that Roland disabled this value in the products and expects you, to use an autopanning effect instead.

[Jotasan]

If you set panpot to -127 (totally to the left) you'll have a random effect on the instrument, or at least, (if i shouldn't call "random effect") the sound will move from each side of speakers.

Regards
Jotasan

[admin]

If you set panpot to -127 (totally to the left) you'll have a random effect on the instrument, or at least, (if i shouldn't call "random effect") the sound will move from each side of speakers.

Regards
Jotasan

Really!?!? I haven't got my G-70 with me, so I can't test it myself... Can anyone else confirm this (not that I don't trust you, Jotasan )?

[Jotasan]

Panpot range goes from L64 to R63.

L64 - Random
L63 - Hard Left
0 - center
R63 - Hard right

It's OK Admin

[admin]

Great! I think this little tip qualifies for creating an article in the tips and tricks section

[admin]

Here is the article: http://roland-arranger.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=233&Itemid=56

[Burkels]

Unfortunately, the E-50 does not support this nice little feature. 

[Diki]

Did anyone check this one...?

First of all, the panpot goes L63-R63. How do you select L64? Can't do it with the slider, can't do it from the numeric entry, can't do it with the sequencer, it is NOT mentioned in the manual or MIDI guide...

G1000's used to do this (based on sound canvas engine), AFAIK, G70's (based on Fantom engine) do not..

I've got my G70 in front of me, and I can't make it do this.

Please, Jotasan, tell us HOW you do this....

[admin]

Hmmm... what OS is installed on your G-70, Jotasan?

[Diki]

Maybe he's beta-testing OS4..?

In the G1000 MIDI manual, the codes for L64 (random) are clearly documented. In the G70 MIDI guide, there is no mention. Roland are usually pretty good in this area (if sometimes a little late with update docs).

[admin]

Can you please elaborate on this Jotasan? 

[Jotasan]

Hi !

I'm surprised with this discuss.
I have OS3 - October 2006. I suppose is a regular one.
You can check Panpot range on the parameter reference guide p.34, Upper1, Upper2, Upper ....
My keyboard came with this guide for OS2 (user manual OS3 and parameter reference OS2, don't ask me why).

First of all, the panpot goes L63-R63. How do you select L64? Can't do it with the slider, can't do it from the numeric entry, can't do it with the sequencer, it is NOT mentioned in the manual or MIDI guide...

I achieve the Random effect on diferent ways, with Make Up tools set panpot to -127 and with the Mixer, set hard left (L64). And, yes, i can do it with the sequencer.

So, for me, is perfectly normal make some random panpot on my tunes.

And, Diki, you are totally right, is not mentioned either the manual or the MIDI guide.

I'm going to upload 2 tunes i've made and you can check the random panpot (pretty cool).

[gvenuti]

I can confirm that it is possible on the G-70 to set the random panpot with the value -127, but only with the MakeUp Tools for SONG and STYLE and not for the keyboard parts.

This mixer allow only value between L 63 (or -63) and R 63 (or +63)...
I don't how to set the -64 for keyboard parts by live playing.

Did we have more other not declared functions in our keyboards?

Regards
Giovanni

[admin]

Thanks for your input, Gio!

[Burkels]

Okay, here are my findings for the E-50:

As stated, the "ping pong" effect does work in the MAKE-UP TOOLS for SONG. Not for UP1, UP2, LOW, MB.
And, it's quite confusing since it won't work on all sounds either! I guess it only works on MONO samples sounds. "Natural Piano" won't work, one of the older EP's will do. Basses, most drums, all respond to -127 panpot.

I think it's safe to assume that it will work on the E-60 as well

(Edit: removed the claim that it worked on styles as well. It doesn't, in the E-50)

[Diki]

Hi !

I'm surprised with this discuss.
I have OS3 - October 2006. I suppose is a regular one.
You can check Panpot range on the parameter reference guide p.34, Upper1, Upper2, Upper ....
My keyboard came with this guide for OS2 (user manual OS3 and parameter reference OS2, don't ask me why).

First of all, the panpot goes L63-R63. How do you select L64? Can't do it with the slider, can't do it from the numeric entry, can't do it with the sequencer, it is NOT mentioned in the manual or MIDI guide...

I achieve the Random effect on diferent ways, with Make Up tools set panpot to -127 and with the Mixer, set hard left (L64). And, yes, i can do it with the sequencer.

So, for me, is perfectly normal make some random panpot on my tunes.

And, Diki, you are totally right, is not mentioned either the manual or the MIDI guide.

I'm going to upload 2 tunes i've made and you can check the random panpot (pretty cool).

OK, Jotasan, I'm sitting here with my G70... I STILL cannot make the Panpot go further left that L63 in the regular mixer, and values go -127 - +127 in the Style Mixer and Makeup Tools (where is there a L64-0-R63 in ANY mixer?), and a value of -127 only makes everything go hard left (except stereo samples). I tried the Inc/Dec buttons, I tried the numeric input, display in the Makeup Tools still says -127, and the sound is still hard left. I went through every single E. Piano in the entire machine, all the same. Is there a Tone you can tell me DOES work...?

Just exactly HOW do you get this to work, again? Step by step, if you will.

And when you say "basses, most drums, all respond to -127 panpot" do you mean they DON'T go 'random' or they DO?

I'm confused...

[Burkels]

And when you say "basses, most drums, all respond to -127 panpot" do you mean they DON'T go 'random' or they DO?

I said that

Mind you, this goes only for the E-50, because that's the instrument I have
"Most basses, most drums, in fact (as far as I can see) all MONO SAMPLED instruments respond to a panpot-setting of -127 by panning 'random' from left to right and vice versa." IN THE E-50

You're right about the panpot L-R confusion. There is no L64-0-R64. There is 0 - 64 - 127 in the mixers
And as far as I can see, NONE of the sounds responds to a "0" (hard-left) setting in the mixer, you can NOT call the random-panning from a mixersetting.
You can ONLY call the random-panning from within the SONG MAKE UP TOOLS, and for selected sounds only.
This is how I checked if it worked:

• Go into the sequencer
• Select channel 1
• Press the patchname in channel 1
• Select the first Nylon Guitar as sound
• Press REC
• Set recording mode to GS
• Record a few bars
• Save the song and exit the sequencer
• Call the SONG MAKE UP TOOLS
• Set PANPOT for channel 1 to -127
• Play the song.
• Hear the guitar panning from left to right and vv

Hope this helps

(Edit: removed the claim that it worked on styles as well. It doesn't, in the E-50)

[Jotasan]

That's right, Burkels, with the sequencer works that way.

In MY keyboard there is a L64 to R63 panpot range as well in the Tone Edit features.

If you can acess to the parameter reference guide for OS2, on page 34, you can check that for Upper 1, Upper 2 , ... Panpot range is RND, L63:R63. This is not mencioned on the parameter reference guide for OS1 (i downloaded it and check it).
Tomorrow i'll upload a scan from this page so you can see with your eyes 

As i work with the default settings for keyboard parts, i' can't confirm right now if random panpot works with keyboard parts and, if yes, on what kind of sounds (Stereo or Mono). But i will check this tonight.

Diki, what can i say to you???

I just turn buttons, values, etc, hard left and there it goes a random panpot   

Try to load my tune "mask party.mid" (i posted it yesterday) on your keyboard. You can ear AirStrings floating on the air.

Drums respond to -127 panpot, at least V-pop. Other ones i'll check tonight, and bass sounds too.

In fact i will re-check all this features tonight.

The last thing i can do is to upload the OS that came in the CD-Rom with my keyboard, if it helps in any way (can i do that Admin?).

I'm starting to believe that my g-70 was made on the moon.   

In the box has a stamp "made in Italy"   

Regards

Jotasan

[Burkels]

In MY keyboard there is a L64 to R63 panpot range as well in the Tone Edit features.

Ah too bad, my E-50 does not have that feature. Well it's nice to have at least _some_ benefit of the random-panning

[Burkels]

Looking at the parameter reference of the G-70, I notice a lot of panpot L63-0-R63 as well as L64-0-R63. Especially in the MFX-section of the reference manual, the L64 setting is mentioned quite a few times.

Note: What is below only goes for the E-50/E-60, NOT the G-70!
And what do you know... My own E-50 Parameter Reference has the same L64 entries in that MFX-section. So I just sat down and tried them all on UP1, UP2 and LOW, using Nylon Guitar 1 as sound setting. Nothing happened. It is totally unclear to me why some ranges are L63-0-R63 (tone editing, mixer) and others are L64-0-R63 (only found in the MFX-settings screen, for some of the effects - not all).

The ONLY way I can get the random-pan to work is as I described earlier, from within SONG MAKE UP TOOLS.

(Edit: removed the claim that it worked on styles as well. It doesn't, in the E-50)

[Diki]

OK, I'm making some progress... I got some random panning by going into the sequencer, and creating a Track with V NYLON GT, saving it, and then going to the Makeup Tools, setting the pan to -127, and Lo and behold! I got random panning!

I think I have found one of the problems... I was checking this out on styles, with the Style Makeup Tool. I can't make it go random on styles at all, yet. I can make some patches go random in Song Makeup Tools, but no styles yet. For example, I can make the V-Pop kit go random with -127 in Song Makeup, but it will not do it in Style Makeup. Would anyone confirm this has been done in Style Makeup, or are we assuming?

I think I have also found out SOME of which Tones DO and DO NOT random pan. In the Parameter Ref PDF for the tones, there is an entry for C1 response (a tick mark). NONE of those 'ticked' will random pan (I think they go through a more Fantom-like synthesis path). Then there is the GrandX (no random), but all the rest other than that one in the piano bank do 'random' if they don't have a tick.

Some of my confusion comes from you using the word 'panpot' for 'slider'. A 'panpot' does one thing only... it PANS sound around. If it doesn't do that, it's a knob! I was going crazy in the Tone Edit page looking for the panpot controls..! Turns out some of the SLIDER values go -64-63, but PAN never does..

Oh, and the drumkits WILL go random, but you CAN'T make a sound within a drumkit go random. Shame, as this could have been very useful.

So, one step forward... Now can anyone tell me how to get random with a style?

[Burkels]

Some of my confusion comes from you using the word 'panpot' for 'slider'. A 'panpot' does one thing only... it PANS sound around.

"Panpot" is the wording Roland uses in its Parameter Reference Manuals (CC10 == "Panpot"). That's why I call the setting "Panpot" I don't use the word to describe any graphical representation of the setting.

You were absolutely right by the way: I assumed the STYLE makeup tools would do the same thing as the SONG makeup tools. And they don't!

On my E-50, I can ONLY make the random panning work for SONGS, not for STYLES.

Oh, and the drumkits WILL go random, but you CAN'T make a sound within a drumkit go random. Shame, as this could have been very useful.

I just recorded a drumtrack on channel 10, and a second drumtrack on channel 11. On channel 11, I played the closed hi-hat and made it random pan using SONG MAKE UP. This way only the hihat pans random, the rest of the kit (on channel 10) remains as it was before.