[SOLVED] Bug fixed by actual OS - Brandnew E50 will freeze...

[Duo-Keyboarder]

Now I have the E50 - and discovered a bug.
1) I have copied a stl-Style to the internal drive.
2) I use Make Up Tools to revoice it.
3) I go to mixer menu, the page for make up tool settings
4) I set the volumes and the effect levels
5) I recall Make Up Tools again
6) Makeup Tools shows, that drums use "Hip Hop" set and then:

a) E50 restarts and will not finish the loading
b) all lights off, display is working
b) all lights off, except the main button in arranger section

I posted it to this thread, for it's a bit similar.
It's a new experience, a bug, I discover on a brand new keyboard.

I tested the same thing with a preset style and another user style, no problem.
If the style data are responsible for the crash, so I can say, E50 is pretty picky with style data.
In the attachment the "evil" style

[Ironhill]

Hi Duo-Keyboarder,
similar problems I had often with G-70 styles on my E-80, but I couldn't make a step by step description like you did. I converted these styles using 'EMC Styleworks' first. Now I had this problem now more. The styles are not compatible 100%, I think. I reported this to the Customer Support Germany month ago. It doesn't help till now.
Regards
Hanspeter       

[Duo-Keyboarder]

Well, so I have to buy Styleconvert.
It's interesting that Yamaha and Technics were never picky about styles (ok, I get an error message, when I try to load a Korg style).
By the way, I heard about, that VA styles make trouble, G 1000 not.

[Duo-Keyboarder]

Update:
I created a style from the scratch.
I copied the Major Division to Minor and Major7
I edited the Minor and Major 7 Bassparts
Stored the style
Applicated Makeuptools
Mixer menu
Makeuptools again
Hip Hop Drumset
Try to change it
FREEZE

Wow, a style created on the E50 make E50 freeze!!!
Ok, so I refrain from using mixing console and use the Make up tool's function to set effects. But it's strange!

EDIT One more update:
The store spoke with Roland Germany and described the problem I discovered. Roland says, to replace the keyboard by another E50 will fix the problem. Soon I will get another E50 and will give the wrong one back.
So I think, soon I will be able to enjoy the E50 completely.

[Burkels]

Too bad you chose to add your experiences to this thread instead of making a new thread. Your errors are in no way similar to the errors this thread started with, and even worse: it's not a bug, it's a faulty keyboard. Maybe the admin could split the topic?

[Duo-Keyboarder]

Sorry, i thought it would be a bit similar.
I hope, that this bug will not happen in other E50s.
But at least, I can try to use the Make Up Tools menu only for setting volume, effect etc.
Creating a style in E50 is easy, as known from Yamaha, but with more possibilities to edit in the instrument.
Administrator, when you split the thread, please call it "Brandnew E50 will freeze while using makeup tools"

[Diki]

Before you get your E50 replaced, can anyone else with an E50 confirm that this is not just a bug...?

If it happens on another E50, you won't need to replace it.

PLEASE start another thread with this problem yourself, Duo, do a detailed Step-by-Step, and if possible, upload the saved user style. Let's find out if this IS a bug or not. Roland seem to think it's easier to fix by replacing your arranger ) but past experience with the G70 Bug forum leads me to believe they probably don't know for sure...

This isn't just a Makeup Tool problem, it is a combination Style Composer/Makeup Tool problem, and it sounds AWFULLY like a bug, not a hardware problem...

[adi matis]

Update:
I created a style from the scratch.
I copied the Major Division to Minor and Major7
I edited the Minor and Major 7 Bassparts
Stored the style
Applicated Makeuptools
Mixer menu
Makeuptools again
Hip Hop Drumset
Try to change it
FREEZE

Wow, a style created on the E50 make E50 freeze!!!
Ok, so I refrain from using mixing console and use the Make up tool's function to set effects. But it's strange!

EDIT One more update:
The store spoke with Roland Germany and described the problem I discovered. Roland says, to replace the keyboard by another E50 will fix the problem. Soon I will get another E50 and will give the wrong one back.
So I think, soon I will be able to enjoy the E50 completely.

what can i say...? you're not the only one. i am not sure about what you experienced, a step by step reproduction might be interesting; even so, i had the same type of problem: creating a style with E60 drove me to a freeze.
i have some doubts it is a hardware problem. a good healthy OS update should help.

[Duo-Keyboarder]

If this problem will happen only, while using mixing console menu, then I would stay in the Makeup Tools menu and set volumes there.
By the way, I would store the style to another drive before applicating Make Up tools.
Edit: I started a new thread, but now this thread is splitted, so I removed the new thread (looks like spamming, when 2 similar threads are shown as started by me).
So I ask all E50 users: Please, download the style example and do the steps
- Make Up Tools
- Revoicing
- Mixing console menu
- switch from User programm editing to style make up
- go back to Make Up tools
- try to change the drum set.
If you can do this, without freeze, it's a sign, that another E50 may fix the bug, I discovered. If not, so I have to live with the bug and may get money back for the limitation or a free gig bag.

[Burkels]

Before you get your E50 replaced, can anyone else with an E50 confirm that this is not just a bug...?

I did exactly what was described in the opening message of this thread (downloaded the STL as presented here), as well as everything in the "Update" post (about making a style from scratch).

Nothing weird happened. In both cases, everything worked as it should have done. My E-50 runs OS 1.081

[Diki]

I'm sorry, but to do exactly what Duo did, you need a more exact description (step by step).

Duo..... It is strange, but sometimes the smallest detail (WHAT did you do in the Makeup Tools, exactly, what did you do in the mixer exactly, etc.?) can make the difference between a bug showing up, and not showing up.

I know it sounds like a lot of work, but a step by step that doesn't describe in detail what you did cannot be confirmed or denied by other members. If you can, try to find the simplest, easiest way to make the crash happen, and post that back here in detail.

ONLY THEN, another member can confirm or deny with reasonable accuracy.

(Oh, and of course, you MUST report what OS you are running)...

[Duo-Keyboarder]

I didn't skip a detail, so I guess, replacing the E50 by another one may fix the problem.
It was constantly the same, unless what I did in Make Up Tools or Mixing console.
When I get another E50 and this may not show the same error, I will mark this thread "solved"

[Burkels]

I'm sorry, but to do exactly what Duo did, you need a more exact description (step by step).

True. But even if I take this description from the topicstart:

1) I have copied a stl-Style to the internal drive.
2) I use Make Up Tools to revoice it.
3) I go to mixer menu, the page for make up tool settings
4) I set the volumes and the effect levels
5) I recall Make Up Tools again
6) Makeup Tools shows, that drums use "Hip Hop" set and then:

(And in step 2 and 4 I changed practically *everything*)

still nothing goes wrong.

(Oh, and of course, you MUST report what OS you are running)...

I did

[Diki]

Burkel, sorry, but most of the post was addressed to Duo... HE is the one that needs to post EXACTLY what made the crash (and his OS version).

Without that, you can't repeat exactly what he did. As I said, sometimes it is the smallest detail that makes the difference between something working, and something crashing.

[Duo-Keyboarder]

I told anything

[Diki]

Look, I'm sorry, Duo, but having gone through this once with the old G70 forum, I don't WANT to moderate here (especially as I don't have an E50/60)...

But I can tell you from experience on the old forum that basically Roland will ignore any bug report that doesn't include a step-by-step report that can guarantee a crash every time. So a vague

'I created a style from the scratch.
I copied the Major Division to Minor and Major7
I edited the Minor and Major 7 Bassparts
Stored the style
Applicated Makeuptools
Mixer menu
Makeuptools again
Hip Hop Drumset
Try to change it
FREEZE'

doesn't really get it done...

WHAT did you do in Makeup Tools?
What did you do in the Mixer?
What in Makeup Tools again?

Etc., etc..

The whole idea of a step-by-step is to recreate exactly what makes you crash.  Then, other members do it exactly the same, and either don't get the same result (and you have a faulty unit) or they DO (and you have a bug).

But unless you post a proper step-by-step, no-one can TRULY say they can confirm or deny your problem.

As I said, it's not my place to moderate this forum. But you have to be detailed for the information to be of any use to Roland. And the sooner you all provide Roland detailed descriptions of bugs, the sooner Roland can squash them.

I know it sounds like a lot of work (it is!), but if it gets your arranger fixed faster, isn't it worth it?

It sure was with the G70....

[Duo-Keyboarder]

Oops, I forgot one step:
1. Make Up Tools, setting sounds
2. Freeze Data (edit, I discovered, it doesn't matter for the effect)
3. Mixer menu/ STYLE MAKE UP TOOLS, setting volume etc.
4. Make Up Tools
5. Freeze
I checked it on 2 different E50's.

Now I try to do it otherwise.
I discovered, when I ignore the "Hip Hop" drumset and don't try to set it correctly, but freeze data, the right settings will be applicated to the style and shown correctly. So the cycle is broken.
Pfff, it's like a hole in the road, when you know, where it is, you can try to evade the issue.
Ok, problem "solved", seems to be a software bug.
By te way, the Roland's make up tools are much more mighty, than it's counterpart on Yamaha, because on Roland you can change octave, if the source style's octave is too low.

[Duo-Keyboarder]

Summarry:
When you use Make Up Tools and E50/60 shows the "Hip Hop" set (or another) instead the drum set you selected, NEVER try to change the "wrong drum set". Simply ignore it, freeze data, after this, the set, YOU selected, will be shown correctly.

[Burkels]

( http://www.roland-arranger.com/smf/index.php?topic=342.msg1908#msg1908 )

Duo, why are you claiming in the non-English board that this IS indeed a BUG? This is not yet established, since you fail to give us all the information. (I'm with Diki on this one.)

Oops, I forgot one step:
1. Make Up Tools, setting sounds

What sounds. To what settings?

2. Freeze Data (edit, I discovered, it doesn't matter for the effect)

I'll press it

3. Mixer menu/ STYLE MAKE UP TOOLS, setting volume etc.

No. Not "etc." Tell us WHAT you did. What channels? What setting?

4. Make Up Tools
5. Freeze
I checked it on 2 different E50's.

And I've tried what you describe here and nothing weird happens. So either you got two faulty E-50's, or you're not telling us exactly what you did and left something crucial out.

Also, I object that this topic is marked "SOLVED", since this is in no way true.

[Duo-Keyboarder]

Ok, I can tell, why I think, it is software bug.
This day I got another E50 and this showed the same error.
I couldn't imagine, that this brandnew keyboard doesn't have the actual OS.
But in fact, it's so.
This error is fixed by a new OS.

[Diki]

It certainly DOES appear to be a bug (NOTHING should cause a crash!).

BUT... I agree that although it is nice to have a workaround (thanks, Duo), this problem, and any others you may come across, will get fixed faster if you stay focused on providing Roland (and your fellow members) with exact step-by-steps.

If you had done this in the first place, you might have avoided having to go through the hassle of replacing your E50... Someone would have posted that they get the problem, too. But the smallest detail (in this case, the missed step of Freeze Data) stopped anyone from confirming the issue.

So, anyway, please take this thread as a great example... The more detail you provide, the better your chances of finding out whether there IS a bug or not.

Help Roland, help yourself, help your fellow members.

Post ALL the details of a crash or unexpected function... 

[Duo-Keyboarder]

It is so strange, that Roland didn't say "It's a software bug, install the actual OS" but "we will replace the instrument"
The bug I discovered is fixed in the actual OS, but it seems, that Roland didn't know it.
As I checked, I noticed, that missing the step of freezing data doesn't change the effect.
At least, it's fixed in the E50 now.

[Diki]

THIS is why posting which OS version you have installed is so important...

And updating your OS as soon as possible to any new one that Roland release.

They are notoriously bad at letting anyone know what bugs the update fixes (even their own internal divisions!), so advice about bugs is never reliable unless directly from the arranger development team (and best of luck talking with those recluses!).

[Duo-Keyboarder]

I couldn't imagine, that the new instrument has an out of date OS and I couldn't also imagine, that Roland Germany says "hardware problem" when some people in the forum think "could be software bug".

[Burkels]

Ok, I can tell, why I think, it is software bug.
This day I got another E50 and this showed the same error.
I couldn't imagine, that this brandnew keyboard doesn't have the actual OS.
But in fact, it's so.
This error is fixed by a new OS.

Try to be clearer. What is "the actual OS"? In German "Aktueller" is not the same as the English "actual". I guess you mean that your new E-50 has the latest OS (1.081) and still crashes? In that case it is NOT a bug since my E-50 has 1.081 too and does NOT crash.