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Author Topic: MIDI Recording with BK-7m  (Read 4074 times)
 
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magean
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« on: November 21, 2011, 08:38:36 AM »

Hi,

does anybody know if it is possible to to record the output of the BK-7m (operating in sytle mode) with a MIDI sequencer?

If I connect the BK-7m to a master keyboard and play with the styles (controlled by the arranger), I would like to record the notes played by the arranger with an external sequencer. So I am wondering if the BK-7m provides the MIDI data (notes, CCs, etc.) of the channels played by the arranger at its MIDI out....  then it would be possible for me to record and postprocess the data.

Regards
Gerd
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Deja Morison
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« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2011, 10:13:58 AM »

It is possible.
You have to go to midi parameters (edit style parts, edit tone parts), set on parts that you want to transmit (Tx-On) and set channel for each part. If you want to listen playback from seqencer back to module you have to set Rx (reception) same parts to same channel and to be ON. You can save user midi set! so you wont need to set this all over again after turn off module.
I recomend to use factory value for channel number, just turn ON Tx (and Rx) for parts that you need to record.
Regards
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« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2011, 02:50:55 PM »

Hi,

thank you!
That was exactly the answer I was looking for!!!
I will try it and see if I am able to "make it happen".

Because I want to play with my BK-7m and I want to record what I am playing "live" to postprocess the song in a sequencer!!

Thank you very much for your help.

Best regards
Gerd
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Deja Morison
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« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2011, 03:03:38 PM »

You're welcome  Smiley
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Joe Davis
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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2011, 02:06:05 PM »

Hi Deja Morison,

Thank you so much for this super information. I tried your setup and it worked out perfectly ! Cheesy
While I was testing your configuration I found out I can save all Tx and Rx ( Edit Song Parts, right ? )  information for one style only.
I would love to have this setup for all the styles in the BK-7m. Is it possible ?
If so, how to proceed ?

How do you record/play midi tracks in Sonar ? I have already installed the BK-7m.ins but unsuccessful recordings though ... Sad

Plse advise. Many thanks and best regards, Joe Davis


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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2011, 10:53:43 AM »

Hi Guys,

BK-7m midi recording problem.

Can somebody tell why I cannot record/play midi tracks in Sonar, plse.

I have connected the BK-7m DIN midi with my Tyros1 midi out to play the keys. Works fine.
I have connected the USB cable with my pc.
I have installed BK-7m voice list ( *.ins ) in Sonar.
Sonar recognizes the BK-7m in midi in and midi out.
But no record ...


BTW
Tyros1 Sonar midi recording and playback :works perfect.

Many thanks for your help and feedback !
Best regards from The Netherlands, Joe
 
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2011, 01:35:08 AM »

Personally, I would not try recording the arranger into a sequencer... there is a LOT of sys-ex information in many of the styles, and having the arranger send this tends to muck up the timing a little bit of the notes as the sequencer struggles to receive it all. Not to mention that many USB MIDI interfaces struggle to stay accurately clocked when slaving to external MIDI clock, especially when it is mixed in with sys-ex.

If I were you, I would use the on-board MIDI capture on the arranger to record the basic backing track, save as a MIDI file, then import this into your sequencer. You tend to find that this is MUCH more accurate.
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2011, 08:45:18 AM »

Hi Diki,

I fully agree to your feedback concerning the recording of the arranger with an external sequencer. And I made very good experience with recording arranger styles with the internal sequencer (of my E-60). Everything very accurate, etc..

But the BK-7m has unfortunately no internal sequencer. So how to record the styles of the BK-7m (if I want to use a style of the BK-7m)? I have to use an external sequencer. At least as far as I understand it. Or did I miss an important issue?

Regards
Gerd
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2011, 10:01:04 AM »

HI Joe davis

wrong MIDI connection   (you connection keys to  midi din socket  and PC by USB)

Read the manuel
it's says you can't use midi in/out socket together with de USB-to host
at the same time

When you want to record "live playing" the BK-7m arranger you have to connect the midi-out socket  to the PC-(sonar)  NOT THE USB-to -host MIDI)

otherwise you can use the USB-MIDI PC connection  from the BK-7m
and use a  USB-midi keyboard  also connectect to your PC
link this in your SONAR
USB-keyboard  sonar -in -->sonar usb keyboard -out --> Bk-7m usb -in

So the BK-7m midi poorts and the USB-MIDI are two different midi routes
with different timing/data speed in the module
USB-to-host  is multitrubimal tone generator for computer

Yes, you can send message on both ports at the same time to the BK-7m
Playing the keys on midi analog input and sending control message by USB
BUT merge the realtime playing/arranger= is midi-out anaolog)  with USB-to host  outputs No way

Ps the TX midi settings you make for the style parts are send/work on the MIDI-output socket NOT the USB-to-MIDI port

AVIRO
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 10:17:52 AM by aviro » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2011, 07:46:58 PM »

Hi Joe Davis,

I read the manual of the BK-7m and I don't see to much difference with the G-70.
Of course the G-70 has an integrated keyboard and to use the BK-7m you have to
connect an accordeon or a Midi Keyboard OUT to the Midi IN of the BK-7m.

In the manual is also written that your BK-7m should already be connected to the
computer and of course the USB-PC connection should be set to MIDI and not DATA
and in the most case the OS should recognize the MIDI-Device of the BK-7m.

On your Sonar then you have to say that your imput MIDI is the BK-7m driver and
then you should be ready to record your performance into sonar. After recording  it,
if you also said that the Bk-7m is your Midi OUT device then you should be able to
hear the performance played back on the BK-7m.

As alredy Diki said, at least with the G-70 the quality of the MIDI record was not
optimal and on some break or fill up or down I had very unacceptable recording
parts... (to much SysEx and notes was recorded not in time but when the PC had
the possibility to capture it).

If you first start the Sonar or whatever sequencer and then connect the Bk-7m to
the PC you have no chance to do any record with it.

Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2011, 10:33:27 AM »

Read P.25  of the Bk-7m manuel

computer/sequencer
note! this option disables data reception by the Bk-7m's Arranger and Realtime parts.....

To prevent problems with overload sysexcl ect... data
I recomend to use the bk-7m midi-out din socket for recording realtime-parts and arranger
Midi settings for thru set on global !

Now you will get a "clean" midi-data  transfer from the realtime parts and arranger
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2011, 09:52:32 PM »

Ouch! I can't believe I missed this... You are right, there is no simple MIDI 'capture' in the BK-7m. What on earth were Roland thinking? You can do audio capture, but there is no simple MIDI recording?

That is freakin' INSANE!

Roland have lost their friggin' minds...

RIP Roland. You died in the Alzheimer's ward of arranger manufacturers, having totally forgotten what arranger players actually NEED, and just about every great feature you USED to have (but forgot to include on your latest arrangers). Sleep well.  Cry
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« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2011, 01:14:41 PM »

That is freakin' INSANE!


 I would't say INSANE

Sad  it is!

We Forget the concept  BACKING MODULE !!
It's not a WORKSTATION
OK it have a lot in common with a G70/E80 but It's not a module to compare with these
We do and so do I

I'm realy more worried about the v105 data entry in the OS step by step it showing new problems. After enter a "new"  combination off settings we get new  BUG's
Looks like run into displaced entry's from its basic hardware  OS (V1.04)
The Roland  programer  realy f... this up  as usualy programers do

Aviro
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« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2011, 08:14:37 PM »

Hi Guys,

BK-7m midi recording problem.

Can somebody tell why I cannot record/play midi tracks in Sonar, plse.

I have connected the BK-7m DIN midi with my Tyros1 midi out to play the keys. Works fine.
I have connected the USB cable with my pc.
I have installed BK-7m voice list ( *.ins ) in Sonar.
Sonar recognizes the BK-7m in midi in and midi out.
But no record ...


BTW
Tyros1 Sonar midi recording and playback :works perfect.

Many thanks for your help and feedback !
Best regards from The Netherlands, Joe
 

Firstly you can use EITHER usb OR the standard midi on the BK for reception from the PC...however you do need to set the BK (using the Wizard) to PC-Sequencer mode.

This is not necessary when actually playing the midi file from the attached thumb drive data-base using the BK player directly, but it is required for wrokign with a PC sequencer.

I have no issues with the style mode being disabled so all 16 channels are available to use in Sonar...after all in that mode it IS being used only as a sound module..

But as I said rest assured that when it comes to playing that same MIDI directly on from the BK (at a gig for example) the bk can be in any mode and the MIDI will play back correctly!!
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 06:15:10 PM »


We Forget the concept  BACKING MODULE !!
It's not a WORKSTATION
OK it have a lot in common with a G70/E80 but It's not a module to compare with these

But you are taking a VERY narrow view of what one uses 'backing' for... Many of us use these arrangers to create scratch tracks to be imported to sequencers for final tweaking. THEN, the 'backing' is played as a MIDI file (or audio file) on a gig.

There is hardly a single arranger out there that doesn't have at least very bare-bones 'Recorder' functions, even when they DO have an audio 'capture' as well. That you cannot at least 'capture' a MIDI performance and store it as an SMF is a SERIOUS limitation to this product. I know it's not billed as a 'workstation', but none of us are asking for a full featured sequencer... there are PLENTY of budget arrangers out there with a MIDI Recorder with zero editing capabilities, but at least they can grab a performance and save it as is.

To have included audio recording, but to have left OFF MIDI recording is a blunder of epic proportions. Let's face it, if the unit IS a 'backing module', why ANY form of recording at all? To have included audio capture pushes it's use beyond simple backing, but personally, given a choice between an audio recorder and a MIDI one, I am sure most serious users of arrangers would pick the MIDI capture any day.
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