rumor about roland keyboard

[maestro42]

 ???do you know if the rumor is correct, that Roland will stop intelligent keyboards lines !

The Gw8 and Prelude would be the last one ?? (no more E or G series)



(Do you have some info about that ?)

maestro42

[vitorsantos]

???do you know if the rumor is correct, that Roland will stop intelligent keyboards lines !

The Gw8 and Prelude would be the last one ?? (no more E or G series)



(Do you have some info about that ?)

maestro42

[Diki]

Did you hear the rumor that the world will come to an end in 2010?

I guess (if you pay any attention to rumors) that it wouldn't make any sense to design a new arranger if the world is going to end...

[Gunjongo]

Hi.

Most often when it's smoke to smell or see, there is also fire that cause it, and to be honest, I've also had thoughts about that this is exactly whats going to happen.
When E-80 discontinued so soon after G-70 was taken off, it even seems more clear that this is the way it take.
Another "proof" came when Roland ended the collaboration with Midi-Spot without add another solution to continue the style production.

It's sad, because I think Roland are one of the few who can stand up and compete in the "Pro" division when it come to engineering and solutions that would make the future bright for upper range arranger keyboards.
They should use todays economic downtimes to build future success insted of drop out of the market.

It's very sad if it's going to be just 2 or 3 brands left, if so, I hope it's something true in the rumours I've read at SZ about Casio, that former Technics people joined the forces and something "big" are on the way.
Maybe just wishful thinking or dreams, some would even call it a nightmare..........

[Diki]

Maybe we should just let these rumors pass as nothing more than that... rumors. If and when Roland ever announce something, either positive OR negative, we will know it for sure. In the meantime, if all rumors have some point of truth, I would suggest putting your affairs in order...! No? Perhaps, on SOME points, we are still prepared to be rational?

I personally believe that any company planning to manufacture a $4000+ arranger in today's economy, with the dwindling numbers of people that actually play one, and the dwindling percentage of those that DO play them being able to afford them, dropping the TOTL models and concentrating on the budget line is a VERY positive step. At the very least, it ensures the continuation of the arranger division, and continued improvement and innovation to the basic OS (anyone notice the adoption of more than ONE drum style track after all these years in the new GW-8/Prelude OS? ) whereas, if left to the TOTL models to improve the breed, they perhaps would be struggling to sell enough units to offset the R&D.

When the global economy comes out of the downturn, it should take little to leverage these new OS features into a new TOTL model. But only if the division survives... We are seeing the kind of struggles that Ketron, for example, are going through, banking their entire future on a wünderkind über-expensive TOTL model that is having problems, firstly in being bug-free, and secondly, selling in sufficient numbers. For myself, I have MORE hope for a new Roland TOTL, not less, by the wise (IMO) move to back out of the high end of the market, hopefully temporarily, and concentrating on the models that WILL sell well in an economic downturn.

Yamaha, for all the success of the Tyros line, would NOT be making it if it were not for the vast amount of money coming in from PSR series sales. Take those away, I doubt Yamaha's arranger division would survive. Roland are simply taking a leaf out of Yamaha's playbook... Concentrate on making the budget line the best it can be, and the TOTL takes care of itself.

Anyway, in the meantime, I for one don't see ANYTHING on the market by ANY manufacturer that seriously challenges the four year old Roland model I currently have. I like its' sound, I like its' OS (on the whole!), and if anything else came out better than it, I would already have it..! Bells and whistles are nice, but the basic sound has to be improved enormously by most of the other TOTL arrangers before they can make me into a worried, rumor-mongering prophet of doom!

If, in nearly five years, no-one has made something I GOTTA have, what does that say for how poor the rest are? Bottom line, now that I have two G70's (got to be sure I have a backup!), if Roland never made another TOTL arranger, I could gig happily on this thing for the rest of my career. Perhaps ALL of us could use our time wisely, and spend it playing and learning the great arrangers we already have, rather than constantly fixating on the (possibly, but by no means definitively) NEXT arranger to come out? I seriously doubt that many of us have even scratched the surface of what a G70 or E80 can do.

Love the one you're with...

[Roland]

@ Diki
You tell yust the opinion I have.
People, DOO PLAY with that existing Wunderkind.
 

[Deja Morison]

@ Diki: bravo!! 

I would like to see some bugs to be fixed on G70/E80 and some missing features on it rather than a new arranger...I spend lots of my time to set my arranger how i want it and i am not even close to point where i want to be...possibility are huge...and even that there is new arranger to come out soon i would say: thanks...but no, thanks 

[Torbjoern]

Diki wrote:

I seriously doubt that many of us have even scratched the surface of what a G70 or E80 can do.

You got it, Diki!

Thank you for your open words. I work with G70 as a hobby musician now over a year and I haven't tried and understand let's say 2 thirds of all the wonderful possibilities. I fought a hard fight in the beginning - because before I had a PSR 9000pro - but then there was a hate-love between me and the instrument, but now I'm for my usage totally content.

Musical greetings from sweden and
happy christmas from
Torbjoern

[snazzyplayer]

 My first post, after lurking and skulking around picking up some great tips and information; you gents have a nice spread here, although a bit on the small side.

   Quality not quantity works for me.

 I'm presently using a second hand Roland E-80, along with a Yamaha Tyros3 and a Korg PA2XPro.

I've been a professional entertainer all my life, and I'm happy with each of these instruments, with their individual strengths and weaknesses; I'm really taken with the E-80, which is a recent addition to my stable.

  My good buddy, Zeke, down at the local shop, tells me Roland is out of the high end pro gear for good, and will focus on piddly low end arrangers like the GW-8 and Prelude, instruments that just don't cut it for a pro player.

    They're good, mind you, but hardly the stuff dreams are made of regarding a new instrument for someone wanting a rig with all the essential toys.

    Plus, a flagship arranger gives the shopper more than a hint of the power within the company that makes it; Cadillac had their El Dorado, Mercedes their S-Class, and Toyota has their Lexus.

    Zeke tells me his Roland rep is pushing more home products, like VIMA based instruments, high dollar fancy pants gear for the little woman and the youngsters, and perhaps those metro-sexual hombres that want some furniture to go with the new sofa, the lace curtains and the BMW.

    I don't think there'll be too many pros tyin' up to Roland's hitchin' post in the near future, unless maybe they are taking a sneak peek at the blotter under  Yamaha's ledger and be making an arranger that will have a grip on both the home body and the professional entertainer markets, something like the Tyros appears to have done very successfully.

   Korg seems to be making all their grits and gravy with the PA-800; the PA2XPro is selling real slow in these parts, Zeke says they sell ten PA-800 for every PA2XPro someone puts a saddle on.

   They seem to be sticking with the higher end gear.   

   Roland have them cipherers and engineers looking down the wrong main street; they better get a posse together pronto, and start building some long horn steers; not a couple of big old milk cows and a few calves.

    Snazzy 

   PS: I'm looking for a G-70; can I use my E-80 user programs in it without conversion?     

[Gunjongo]

.....If, in nearly five years, no-one has made something I GOTTA have, what does that say for how poor the rest are? Bottom line, now that I have two G70's (got to be sure I have a backup!), if Roland never made another TOTL arranger, I could gig happily on this thing for the rest of my career. Perhaps ALL of us could use our time wisely, and spend it playing and learning the great arrangers we already have, rather than constantly fixating on the (possibly, but by no means definitively) NEXT arranger to come out? I seriously doubt that many of us have even scratched the surface of what a G70 or E80 can do.

Love the one you're with...

Diki, no problem to agree in lot of your points, but if all of us did live like you describe in the quoted part here, the manufacturers could just close down, because we would just stay at what we have.
Myself I doubt I will do that, specially regarding arrangers , but the G-70 might be a toy to keep, even when buy another high end arranger, whatever brand it will to be.

Cheers

Btw,
how long are your vacation from SZ going to last? Miss you over there. 

[Gunjongo]

   Quality not quantity works for me.

 I'm presently using a second hand Roland E-80, along with a Yamaha Tyros3 and a Korg PA2XPro.
........
   PS: I'm looking for a G-70...   

Hehe, yeah, so we see 

Maybe I should start pack my good as new G-70?
Nope, I've learned from my past mistakes. 

Anyway, even if I'm not one of the "senior members" here, nice to see you, Welcome Aboard!

Cheers

[Diki]

Me, I don't think it is my job to keep these keyboard companies afloat... it's THEIR job to build something that is SO good, I just GOTTA have it... Then, they keep themselves afloat. But incremental, nothing revolutionary model after model is just a way to soak the gullible and insecure. Yamaha have this process down cold! They know their market, that's for sure...

On the whole, I'm a LOT more concerned with what I play on the G70, not about what the G70 plays by itself. I'm trying to keep THAT to a minimum, anyway! With an SRX-07 card in my gigging machine, I am having fun making new patches work in my music, I am finding new styles to convert (the new GW-8L styles have a lot going for them) and I STILL can't really point to any other arranger as something I would give up the G70 for. They are either too 'smooth' and gutless (Yamaha) or not musical enough for me (I still hate Korg's mere three fills - two if you don't count the break/fill) and nothing beats the killer combination of a world class piano, TOTL B3 sim and TD drums for that live band sound. Those SRX-07 basses finally make that section killer, too (very picky about my bass sounds), so all in all, I still don't think I've scratched the surface much, yet. Marked it a little, maybe, but not delved as deeply yet as I did with my G1000 (had sys-ex down cold on that one!)

If this is the end for Roland TOTL arrangers, well, they went out on a great note. Me, I think they'll be back when the economy picks up. As I said, it won't take much to ramp a GW-8 up into a TOTL affair, just slap a few more goodies in there, stick the G70 action on it, add a harmonizer and away you go! (And give me back my Chord Sequencer!).

Good to see some SZ people still coming here. I'm lurking over there occasionally, but sanity doesn't seem like it is breaking out, still 'mine is better than yours' spec wars outnumber discussions about music and real life PLAYING, so I'm not sure I'll be back with the same uptime there when I get reinstated. It reminds me of the tale of the horse being taught singing... it never sings, and all you do is annoy the horse Anyway, where's the fun in a rational discussion about arrangers? That's what THIS forum is all about...

PS: I'm looking for a G-70; can I use my E-80 user programs in it without conversion?

     

Snazzy... There are quite a few E80 sounds and drum kits different from the G70. The G70 WILL read your E80 UPG's, but you'll have to do a bit of reprogramming for when these different sounds are used on the style or SMF. You've also got to allow for the style MFX, if it is doing something critical... But my Tip about using the G70 IFX as a style MFX can get you this back, you just have to program it in. Other than that, the style formats and UPG formats are interchangeable.

[Gunjongo]

On the whole, I'm a LOT more concerned with what I play on the G70, not about what the G70 plays by itself.
...........
And give me back my Chord Sequencer!

I'm also a lot concerned about what I play myself, as well as I try learn something new everytime I sit down at the keys.
I'm not any pianist or organist, if so I would buy a piano or "ordinary" organ. People who have the gift that they play piano well don't really need much (if any) other addons.
I love the features available and the fun using arrangers give me, and the more there is to find inside it to help me "conduct" the inside band or orchestra, the better it is..
So come'on Roland or whoever manufacturer, just carry on the big mission! 

Chord sequenser.... I've seen you mentioned that many times.
I'm not familiar to i.e. G1000, but if it is similiar to the nice feature Technics have, it's just great!
Technics let you record chords either live or by step function, you can punch in and out if mistakes and so on.

Another feature I used and that I miss a lot, is the control track that we can find on Technics. That part of sequenser can be used to record all the start, stop, buttonpushing, fillins, soundchanges and whatever you like, so when perform you can consentrate on playing and not all the buttonpushing.
If "end is near" and you want to carry on play another verse or chorus because of the moment, just turn off the control track, and carry on the song, but now you have tu push buttons if needed.
I've said it before, and repeat it again: Would be nice to see other manufacturers "steal" and adapt any of the userfriendly and wonderful Technics features such as composer, panelmemories and way to mix parts from different styles. Pick bass from one style, drums from another and so on into a totally new one in a very easy way by just copy and paste into the composer.

It's not long before X-Mas ..... Santa Claus, do you hear me?   

Cheers

[snazzyplayer]

But incremental, nothing revolutionary model after model is just a way to soak the gullible and insecure. Yamaha have this process down cold! They know their market, that's for sure...

   I'm a mite lucky in this situation, because I don't rightly favor one brand over the other, seeing that they all are slicker than frog hair and I'm as happy as a tick on a fat dog with each of them.

   But, getting to your comment about Yamaha.

   Yep they do know their market, but I would go further to say, they do know the market, and very well, it seems to this unbiased observer.

     If Roland would follow the same path, with incremental changes, then at least we would have the choice whether to decide they were substantial enough to buy one of their new critters.

    Then, at least, we'd be still able to add a Roland flavor to our rigs, and one that was just as tasty and fashionable as Korg and Yamaha.

    I don't rightly agree with Roland's offerings of fat VIMA moo cows and GW-8 (and Prelude) calves (barely weaned, I might add); I'm reasonably happy with the E-80, but it is an old dog now, and although it's still capable of rounding up the cattle, it seems to be a little short winded in a few areas, all of which could be easily addressed by incremental updates.

  I'm hesitating on the G70 because of the points you raised about it's drawbacks, some of which are deal breakers with me; I'd be more inclined to keep the E-80, as I gain no distinct advantage of weight saving by using the former. I generally gig with the Yamaha Tyros3, and the PA2XPro and the Roland stay in my rec room.

     I'm of the opinion that Yamaha (or Korg) don't have all the answers, but, there is no shame in following a successful campaign. With the absence of a top of the line arranger, Roland players are going to move on over to the competition, and since the other guys are getting better with each generation, Roland will not only have to equal the competition, but excel, and it won't be as simple as "slapping a few more goodies in there, sticking the G70 action on it, adding a harmonizer and away you go!"

    We both know, once folk switch brands, they don't rightly want to change back, and once they sample the other products, which have incrementally improved, they are quite likely to remain in the new camp; especially if they buy into any new peripherals associated with their new instruments.

   You are content with your G70, but your methods of playing are not rightly indicative of most arranger players, who tend to want auto-accompaniment that plays everything but the melody, and more than just B-3, Piano and great drums; they want realistic guitars, saxophones and other instruments that Korg's DNC, and Yamaha's mega and super articulated voices, provide in spades.

   Surely, you would agree that your style of playing an arranger is in the minority; if it was more representative of how these instruments are played, then we wouldn't see single finger chords, or be able sit back in awe-struck amusement, as the style playing reminds us of our last vacation in the Caribbean at the Costa Del Fortuna; no, I think these instruments are mainly for the dudes and dudettes, rather than the hired hands.

   According to what Zeke tells me, the average, top of the range, arranger customer tends to be well-heeled, and usually retired; reminds me of those Mercedes S-Class and Lexus buyers. They want their fancy rigs to be able to do the boot scootin' boogie to impress their friends, but they also want to sit back in their leather and wood lined interiors and have those horses do all the work, while they just hold the buggy whip.

    I'm much obliged to you for your tip on the UPG, and I'm looking forward to more jaw flappin' about Roland's future.

    This is a nice friendly forum; I've peeked in on SZ, and it ain't for me. I'll stick with brand specific forums. In fact it was a Yamaha guy who recommended this here Roland spread to me; says he's a good buddy of yours. He's a guy from Canada who goes by the handle Ianmcnll; a right friendly, and very smart guy, and really helpful to me with my Tyros3. He spoke right highly of you and your'n, and how helpful this forum was to Roland folk .

   Thanks again for the nice welcome.

     Snazzy
 

   




 

[beestar]

I've peeked in on SZ, ...

Maybe a silly question, but what is SZ?


Maarten

[chris48]

Hi.
 SZ = Synth Zone. Can be intresting sometimes but like other people have said not to my liking. Has a good link section though!

  Chris

http://www.synthzone.com/

[Seamaster]

My good buddy, Zeke, down at the local shop, tells me Roland is out of the high end pro gear for good, and will focus on piddly low end arrangers like the GW-8 and Prelude, instruments that just don't cut it for a pro player.

It is inconceivable that Roland would continue to invest in the development and manufacture of the Atelier range, and not "sweat" that investment by sharing it with a new generation of TOTL arrangers. Until we hear that Atelier is being discontinued, we should view reports of Roland's demise in the arranger market as greatly exaggerated.

[snazzyplayer]

Atelier embraces an entirely different market than E-80, and most definitely, the G-70.

 VIMA instruments seem to be the substitute for high end home keyboards in the Roland camp. This information is coming from Roland reps. I believe if they had any inkling that there would be a new TOTL arranger they would gladly give a hint or three, if only to keep the family together. 

  I'm rightly glad I bought my E-80 when I did, but I would like to think that after I tire of it, I can get a new E series with improvements over the issues I don't like about this here critter.

   Unfortunately, it may not be the case.

  Korg and those Yamaha fellers will be puttin' their brands on more than a few new backsides next year (and this year), and those impressions don't rub off too easily.

   If ya snooze ya lose.

   Cheers,

   Snoozy...er...Snazzy.
 

[Seamaster]

Atelier embraces an entirely different market than E-80

Not in Europe/Asia.

Remember the USA is a drop in the ocean for Roland as far as arranger sales are concerned.

[snazzyplayer]

   Here in USA there seems to be a stigma about using an arranger. It's an image issue, far as I can tell.

   Only organ that is acceptable, is a Hammond B-3.

   I do, however, believe Roland will lose a large percentage of it's TOTL arranger customer base to Yamaha and Korg, whether it be here in the USA, or over in Europe.

   And, I also believe they'll never again have the edge they had back some years ago when they put a coat of paint on that first E-series, and stuck a mighty big horse pin in the rump of every other arranger maker.

   Shame really, as they deserve better. I like my E-80 better than beans and biscuits, but I also want to get the next one, just like I want to get a Tyros4, and a Korg PA3XPro. 

   I know I sure enough don't want no VIMA junk.

   Well, Seamster, all we can do is hope for the best.

  Don't appear to be as many around this place lately, maybe they's getting discouraged with Roland; I know I will if they really do give up on the big ones.

     Snazzy

[snazzyplayer]

Anyone try this instrument?

 http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=980


 Snazzy

[keyboard]

Anyone try this instrument?

 http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=980


 Snazzy

Thanks for the link.......Looks like the perfect home unit 

[Gunjongo]

Hey Diki, chord sequenser on this one 

Btw, did anyone notice the arranger part of the site?
4 models left, all from the mid and lower range ........

[snazzyplayer]

Anyone try this instrument?

 http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=980


 Snazzy

Thanks for the link.......Looks like the perfect home unit 

  Yep, but only if you have the perfect home.

   Snazzy

[Diki]

A step sequencer for chords is NOT a 'Chord Sequencer'. The Roland Chord Sequencer was a realtime tool for capturing exactly what you played, and spitting it back at you on the fly (at least, the arranger part of it).

Snazzy, I've never had a single musician in my life come up and give me any attitude for playing on an arranger. Have you? Or is this one of those 'chip on our shoulder' apocryphal stories that just keeps getting repeated? Personally, from actually having some of the better workstations (K2500, Triton), at a live gig, my G70 sounds JUST as good if not better, and is an order of magnitude easier to run onstage. After that, the only attitude you get is for what you PLAY. People have been running OMB's and smaller combos using WS's FAR more than arrangers, so if there's any angst over being 'replaced', it is as much heaped on WS's as arrangers.

After that, it is all down to what you play. Personally, I think it is some of the one-finger arranger PLAYERS that are getting what scorn there might be out there. But the arranger doesn't HAVE to sound corny. But it IS easy to let it become that...

BTW, although at the moment I'm doing most of my gigging with real bands (and using the G70 with nothing but positive comments), I also still gig occasionally with duos or OMB. And even for those tasks, I'm MUCH happier with the G70 than anything else out there. For me, it is ENTIRELY about the basic sound (which is MUCH more that just a piano, drums and an organ!). If those aren't right (and, at least for me, none other than the G70/E80 are), it doesn't really matter what OS features and OMB 'extras' are added.

Sure, I'd LOVE the Mega guitars from the T3 line added to my G70, maybe that SA sax and guitars, but what I would lose by migrating would be FAR more than what I'd gain (IMO). Until the manufacturers get together and standardize the MIDI codes for arranger operation (so you CAN 'combine' two arrangers into one rather than make an 'either/or' choice for each tune) I'm afraid that nothing else even slightly tempts me. Maybe the onus ought to be on Yamaha to catch up to Roland's good points, not the other way around (which looks very unlikely, anyway!)..?

OTOH, it is all too obvious that Yamaha have absolutely NO intention to bring out an arranger with Roland's best features. So, rather than bitch at Yamaha for NOT being as good as the Roland at what IT is best at, people seem to expect that it is Roland's responsibility to add what they like from the Yamaha's Best of luck with either!

Yamaha, IMO, DO know THEIR market very well. It is predominantly 'home' players, generally people of such low playing skills that they could never play in a decent real band. As such, they never learn what playing in a real band sounds like. They play at home, with CD's all the time, and consequently learn to like the compressed, finalized, low dynamics sound of the CD (nowadays so much more compressed lately than they ever were). Now don't get worked up... yes, you CAN play full 'pro' on them. But I really don't think that's what they are 'designed' for (any more than the Yamaha fans think that Roland are designed for the 'home' user that prefer that sound). But personally, I don't care whether I'm playing OMB or actually IN a live band. I still want it to SOUND like one!

Maybe the day I see Yamaha seriously going after the best of what a Roland can do, I'll think that Roland should try to be a Yamaha clone. But I won't be buying one. I'll be buying the Yamaha that sounds like a Roland!