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adjusting BK9 metronome

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  • Karma:
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adjusting BK9 metronome #197
I'm planning to attempt to have a live drummer sync to BK9 midi files (with the BK9 drums muted)
I've been reading, and it does seem like playing along with a metronome is the only realistic way to go.
The files are mainly just bass and drums so he would be syncing to 'bass'.
The metronome has a 'pitch' on the downbeat and the drummer has complained about attempting to sing with the pitch. I can see his point.
Is there any way of adjusting that metronome other than volume? (I'm aware of the global metronome page)
Is it possible to sync that metronome signal to a device that gives off a big light - I can imagine hearing the bass and watching the light and staying in sync.
I imagine we're not the only people with this problem:)
1 year 3 months ago

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adjusting BK9 metronome #198
Sadly, no... There's nothing you can do to change the metronome. And because the BK-9 is a MOTL arranger, it does not have direct outs (so you can't run a percussion track to his cans for him to lock to).

However, if your drummer has an old drum machine lying about, you could always program a custom click for him on a specified channel (ch.16 is rarely used), and route that track to ONLY the MIDI outs.

That might be a lot of work if you use a lot of SMF's, though.

Alternately, you might slave his old drum machine to MIDI clock, and have him leave a drum pattern up with his click pattern of choice. Only issue there is if a song has got time signature changes in it (the odd 3/4 or 2/4 bar).

Bottom line... All workarounds involve a LOT of work. I'd think that, if he knew how much (and had to do the work himself!), your drummer might manage to get over the problem of singing to a different key from the click!

If I remember correctly, there ARE a few visual metronome devices (I remember seeing Bjørk use one on the Covent Garden DVD) but I sort of remember looking them up a long time ago and they were EXPENSIVE! :woohoo:

There are a few drummer metronomes that can do a visual click, but I'm rather doubtful they have a MIDI in (but it's worth looking around).

I hope your drummer has extensive credentials playing to a click... Good ones that can groove and still lock to a track are hard to come by!
1 year 3 months ago
BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

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adjusting BK9 metronome #203
There is another approach, though, if you are willing to change how you do stuff....

If you are using SMF's and no styles, you can always simply convert your sequences to audio, and use a computer laptop or tablet to play the audio files. There are quite a few software visual metronomes and software allows you to use a multi-channel audio interface so you can route custom click tracks to the drummer and still output full stereo to the FOH.

You can also use MIDI codes at the same time (OnSong, for an example) as the audio, which can do stuff like call up your BK9 Performance when the song is selected.

Styles, OTOH, I can't see an easy way to do this. Perhaps a USB from the BK9 to a tablet with a visual metronome (if it can sync to incoming MIDI Clock and Start/Stop), but I don't know any specific softwares for this.

Last idea... use the lyrics out video to send to a screen (or use the iPad Lyrics Viewer app) and, if you aren't using it for lyrics, embed a '1-2-3-4 1-2-3-4' into the SMF every bar. Nice and visual. I actually use this on some SMF's at the beginning if I want a silent count in but still hit the 'one' nice and tight.

I tried looking up Bjørk's device, but I could no longer find it.

Sadly, Behringer makes (made?) a great device that does the 'Cylon' bouncing LED metronome, the BTR2000 rack mount tuner/metronome, but it has no MIDI in. Bummer!
1 year 3 months ago
BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

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Topic Author
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  • Birthdate: 26 Feb 1949
adjusting BK9 metronome #212
I've thought and read and thought and read..........Maybe the best solution would be to edit my SMFs, eliminate all drums except the Bass Drum.
Or perhaps eliminate snare, cymbals toms. and leave BD and Latin percussion. (and leave the HH 1-2-3-4- count-in)
That way I could avoid playing bass,(because it's in the SMF), thus improve piano playing(!) (and leave the possibility of horns strings etc)
We could even have the drummer play a fake e bass drum pedal so it feels right!
1 year 3 months ago

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adjusting BK9 metronome #213
Personally, I'd try singing a few songs while listening to the click on cans, and see if YOU think this is a problem so bad it involves a ton of work. Personally, I've sung to clicks (pitched and unpitched) before, and it wasn't so bad I couldn't work around it.

If it were the drummer himself doing all the work, sure, let him do whatever he wants! But his niggle is going to cost YOU days of work, and the results still might not work well. A click only works well (whether it's click sounds or percussion) if it runs through rests and breaks, which isn't ideal for the listener out front. There's a REASON the metronome has its own output! You really don't want to subject the audience to audible clicks if at all possible.

TBH, if your drummer absolutely CANNOT sing to the click, I think the approach I'd take if you are willing to edit all your SMF's (how many are we talking about?) is to find an old drum module, or a used old Sound Canvas module, something dirt cheap, and use a dedicated channel (ch.16 is usually unused) and send him the click over MIDI. He can pick his sounds, let you know if he needs 1/4 notes or anything different, and he has direct control over its volume. At least this way, the audience won't hear the click at all. I hate to say it, but I have rarely ever heard a drummer lock well to kick patterns, hi-hats (they want to play those! plus real hi-hats are WAY better than MIDI ones) or anything other than things like woodblocks, clave, spiky sounds like that (easy to hear over their own playing), and I have NEVER heard a drummer like anything other than a steady pattern, which the track's kick or hi-hats certainly won't be (unless you are doing dubstep!).

It's bad enough that the drummer needs to lock to a track with a solid click, it's MUCH worse if you make it so the audience HAS to hear it, too...
1 year 3 months ago Last edit: 1 year 3 months ago by Diki.
BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

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adjusting BK9 metronome #5439
Ok, long time lurker to this forum but fantastic information. I realize this is an old post but just in case others are searching on the topic of using BK9 as a master sync for a drummer, I have a proof of concept that I have only tried in rehearsals (not sure how reliable it would be in a live situation so still have to take the plunge). It's a little on the expensive side but here it is:

If you have and iOS device, you can connect it to your BK9 (USB or Midi will work). You will need an app I recently discovered the syncs Midi to Ableton Link and vice versa. Actually, there are two apps I've tried (MIDI Link Sync and Link to MIDI). I have found MIDI Link to Sync seems to work better and have more options. You will also need an iOS app that syncs to Ableton Link.

The OT wanted something visual. There is an app from Soundbrenner (maker of those musician watches) that makes an app called Metronome. Metronome is Ableton Link enabled and displays a visual of each beat in the measure as it progresses. The "MIDI Link to Sync" app will take not only the tempo from the BK9's MIDI clock but will also take the Start flag when BK9's Start button is pushed starting the Style. Because Ableton Link protocol understands both tempo and measures, the combination of these four (BK9, iOS device, MIDI Link to Sync app, and Metronome app) will allow the drummer viewing the Soundbrenner Metronome to see the the tempo as well as where the down beat is from the BK9.

I've tested this out and works quite well. If you connect multiple iOS devices running the Metronome app on a hardware MIDI Interface that can accommodate multiple MIDI devices, all the Metronome apps will sync to the BK9. You only need one iOS device running the "MIDI Link to Sync" app to serve as the master converter from MIDI Clock to Ableton Link. The other iOS devices only need to run the Metronome app as they will "see" the Ableton Link signal and sync to it.

Also a shout out to Diki. Thanks for all the years of info I've absorbed from you. There's probably a lot of us out there like me that just lurk to find solutions and you've helped me out a great deal.

Markus
5 months 1 week ago Last edit: 5 months 1 week ago by MarkusB47. Reason: typo
The following user(s) said Thank You Diki

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