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TOPIC: BK9 Continuous Controllers

BK9 Continuous Controllers 02 Dec 2017 13:04 #6438

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I'm using a standard midi file that I downloaded and modified to suit my BK9 keyboard.

In the midi sequencing for some instruments it calls up continuous controllers CC98, CC99 and CC6. What are they, what do they control and does the BK9 recognise them? In the MIDI Implementation Chart it says: CC6 = Data Entry; CC98 = NRPN LSB and CC99 = NRPN MSB. This doesn't help me!

I think they must have an impact on volume/expression because I've taken the velocity to 127 and the BK9 playback on those instruments is still too quiet compared with the other instruments.

Any help and an explaination would be appreciated.

Example: CC6: 43; CC98: 102; CC99: 1
CC6: 62; CC98: 32; CC99: 1
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BK9 Continuous Controllers 02 Dec 2017 19:44 #6440

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Those controller numbers may depend on the instrument they came from... NRPN mean non-registered parameter number. In other words, up to the manufacturer what it does. So, if a Yamaha SMF or a Korg, or whatever, your guess is as good as mine what those do. Do you know what the original was for..?

As a general rule, unless I know an NRPN came from a Roland keyboard in the first place, I simply strip all that stuff out.

You DO have the BK-9_MIDI_Imp_e1.pdf, don't you?

You might also try a simple Google search for standard MIDI controller codes. Lots of good info out there.
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BK9 Continuous Controllers 03 Dec 2017 18:33 #6445

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CC6: 62; CC98: 32; CC99: 1 - this is "TVF Cutoff Frequency" (relative change)
if CC6 = 64 it will normal (default), if CC6 = 62 - then there will be in comparison with the normal the TVF-filter is -2

CC6: 43; CC98: 102; CC99: - this is "TVF&TVA Env. Release Time" (relative change)
if CC6 = 64 it will normal (default), if CC6 = 43 - then there will be in comparison with the normal the "TVF&TVA Env. Release Time" is -21.
This means that the decay time will be shorter.
Roland E-80 v.2.01 (SRX-01, 02, 10), Roland M-GS64, Roland XV-5050, Ketron SD-2, Edirol PCR-500, Edirol M-16-DX, Kawai MAV-8
Last Edit: 03 Dec 2017 18:41 by loshk.
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BK9 Continuous Controllers 03 Dec 2017 20:14 #6446

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Thanks, loshk. I'm not sure what instrument the file was written for so I've taken Diki's advice and stripped them all out..

It sounds better now.
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BK9 Continuous Controllers 03 Dec 2017 20:20 #6447

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Thanks, Diki. No I'm not sure waht instrument the file was written for so I'm taking your advice.
Yes, I've downloaded the BK-9_MIDI_Imp_e1.pdf and had to do a quick refresher on hex to find what implementation I was looking at.. To be honest, the file with them stripped out sounded better than the original and TVF's and TVA's etc. are a bit beyond my level of MIDI understanding, so I'll keep away from them from now.

Thanks again.
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BK9 Continuous Controllers 05 Dec 2017 21:53 #6456

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Glad to help.

On the whole, I prefer to strip all that stuff out unless I KNOW it was written for a Roland in the first place (Tune1000 or other legacy stuff). And even then I usually end up stripping it. Most of that stuff is codes to help older Roland or other manufacturers overcome their 80's/90's limitations (which is when the vast majority of web SMF's were made), codes to mitigate shortcomings in their much older sound-sets.

Thing is, today's sound-sets have few of the old limitations (for instance, old Sound Canvas based files usually put some chorus on the bass to fatten them up - you don't need to do that any more), and in truth are often quite different to those old thin sounds. 9/10 times, as you note, the sequence already sounds better without them. And, a few minutes with the Makeup Tools can turn a pig's ear into a silk purse! A bit of work rebalancing the drums - try raising or lowering the velocity (if the part had any :evil: ) to hit the new drums' velocity x-over points (the point at which the snare goes from skin to rim, for instance, or a hi-hat gets more open) and then up or down the volume to bring it back in balance. Try some of the newer brass and string sounds. Use some EQ to tame overly bright Parts. Apply some MFX, say a stereo panner on Rhodes,, or a tape delay on a guitar Part...

It is possible to make 80's and 90's (and even yesterday's, if the truth be known!) sequences sound like they were done today with a bit of basic Makeup Tools work. Use the latest sounds, the latest effects on just the basic note data (keep controllers like sustain, expression, volume, but you can safely strip almost everything else away 99/100 times) and then add what you want to taste in the Makeup Tools.

Guys (and gals!), the Makeup Tools are BY FAR the best header editing system of any arranger today. I would say that mastery of just that one feature is 90% of making your BK (or G/E/E-A series) sound amazing...
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BK9 Continuous Controllers 05 Dec 2017 23:35 #6459

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Thanks for the information Diki. TBH I haven't used the Makeup Tools on the arranger. I use Sibelius and PowerTracks Pro Audio to edit the sequence and then load the SMF into my BK9 via USB drive. Having read your post, I'll try the Makeup Tools to see if I can improve the file even further. I realise that, even though I can produce midi files that sound reasonable (both downloaded and self-produced from scratch), I still have a lot to learn!

Thanks again
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BK9 Continuous Controllers 07 Dec 2017 09:29 #6460

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I think pretty much everything the Makeup Tools does CAN be done in a sequencer/DAW, but it is some formidable sys-ex stuff, and AFAIK there is no full BK9-level editor...

All the stuff about changing drum tunings, individual drum reverb levels, offsetting velocity for individual drum sounds... Sure, you COULD do it with sys-ex. But why bother?! The Makeup Tools are an extraordinary front-end to some of the most arcane and hidden sound editing sys-ex.

I tend to do the bulk of the note sequencing in a DAW first, but once done, I put the SMF on my stick, open it in the BK, and then start to do the serious sound editing in there with the Makeup Tools. Yes. if you want to hear all that stuff WHILE you are sequencing, then things get a bit complicated. I am usually content to get the basic tracks down without obsessing over the panning on the Rhodes or EQ on the snare, etc.. I pretty much know what I can and can't do with the Makeup Tools to add the final polish... B)
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